Veda

From: Radhesh Mohandas
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 10:32 PM
To: Suresh Natarajan; Balaji Hariharan; Navindra Umanee; Ajit Krishnan; Srimani Venkataraman; Subject: RE: Vedas

Well said everybody. It is good to know that you have such a deep understanding. Here is some more food for thoughts.

· Truth is what that does not change with time and circumstances. What is true cannot be destroyed and what cannot be destroyed cannot be protected. Leaving this silly logic aside, the point is regarding the attitude of approach. If you proceed with the idea of protecting Vedas, it will create a false sense of Adipatya. One should approach the mighty with namrata and ask the bhiksha of knowledge. Remember why Rama was able to lift the bow in SitaParinaya

· Regarding the indestructibility of Vedas: If you have gone through some of the Vedas you will find that they are nothing but statements of what is found in nature, what always existed and will exist. They are like a set of research papers published by research universities summarizing what they found through their practices and experiments. Most chapters state the Rishi family or Gurukul where the work was originally undertaken. So as long as nature exists, one can observe it and write it down again. The language and context might change and the experiments might be different but the truth will always be the same.

· Now regarding the interpretation, it is up to the interpreter. If you go to a doctor who diagnoses your illness wrong, it does not mean that the medical science is wrong. It just means that your doctor did not know something or did not observe something or just made some wrong decisions. Similarly if you read the translations of Vedas you will get the interpretation of the translator which is only as good as his capabilities. If you have a great speaker giving out some nice ideas in a big auditorium, he speaks the same things to everybody but each person remembers different things that are pertinent to him and interprets them according to his life experiences. That is why recording the original speech is more important to re-telecast rather than asking a smart person in the audience to summarize. To understand Vedas completely you have to interpret it yoursel and even then you get more juice out of it every time you hear it. Learning the language Sanksrit, the Grammar, the various forms and meanings that define the context and circumstances of the analogies and rituals takes time. In the meanwhile it is very easy to learn the Vedas by route and one day when you are ready you will be able to understand what you have been chanting all along. It might happen when you are chanting the very stanza that you have been chanting for the past 20 yrs while taking bath and when that happens you will be ecstatic. The goal therefore should always be to understand the meaning. One day it will come together and you will realize what you have understood. So keep your minds open, expectations high, patience unperturbed and efforts consistent. Everybody should aim at learning the entire literature and understand every ounce of it and realize true knowledge.

· The other part of chanting Vedas is the “Tarangas” or the vibrations. These sounds transform not only your Self but also environment around you. Hence they will have effects even if you chant them without understanding. They have to be chanted accordingly to get the desired effects. You might have experienced different emotions when you listen to different music and this is just an extension of that. You do not need to fear the chanting of Vedas and exercise extreme caution as a nuclear reactor. If you do not chant it right it will be a NOOP. Exercising common sense like not playing rock and roll at somebody’s funeral or pessimistic songs during a wedding, will be good enough to prevent goof ups.

· The undertaking: The task of understanding Vedas is difficult not because the Vedas are hard, it is just because we do not spend enough time on it. We have spent 16+yrs on western schooling and without even spending that much time expect to learn Vedas or get away doing the minimum. Once upon a time everybody learnt the Vedas and they were the computers for your life. Now that you do not spend as much time on it is what is meant by Kali Yuga. Kali Yuga does not imply that Vedas suddenly become harder to know, reduce your IQ, decrease your time or make understanding impossible. Socially you may not find the supportive environment and that is why you need Satsangs to associate with the right people.

· The role of the Guru: If you are really determined and making sincere efforts, a Guru can cut short the years to learn by helping you prioritize the right things, help you make better decisions and things like that. There are also some Tarangas that are not in the audible frequency range of human years or the voice box. Vedas in these frequencies have to be learnt directly from the Guru who realizes this. This study and evolution can span multiple life times due to all the reasons I gave above. The good news is unlike the western knowledge, this knowledge or at least a part of it will be carried over from one birth to the next. You start from where you left the previous time and work your way up. A good Guru can help you remember faster and prevent you from working down from where you were. Do not expect that you will remember the details of your previous births and such, as that does not happen to everybody, but you might have certainly observed that you learn a few things faster than the rest. That is because its relevance to your previous efforts.

* Bad effects: If you are a very adept musician who can play every instrument and then you lose a part of your mental decison making you may end up playing wrong tunes for the occasion that might alienate the audience. Similarly if you were a Vedic pandit in your previous life, the vedas will come to you easily and every stanza that you chant will have effects which you might have not expected. If you are unable to understand your power then you will need supervision. If you are in that situation it makes sense to pratise only under the guidence of a Guru only but for most of us not having a Guru is only an excuse not to do what we are supposed to do. Such cases occur very rarely.

* Our responsibility is to reach realization. But most of us chase bubbles with the time we have. But the path of truth has to be walked by everybody sooner or later. You can donate money or write and talk about it to increase your support infrastructure when you are ready. Commited people walk on the path with whatever infrastructure is available and will reach the truth. If you are thinking that you do not have to walk the path, whom are you trying to fool? Once you start walking your lifestyle will change. If you decide to digest the Vedas, you will have to memorize a lot of stuff. You will automatically wake up in the morning. Once you start feeling the pleasure inside, you will no longer chase pleasure outside. You will not crave for toxic food and can not tolerate alcohol. Alternately you can change your lifestyle to make it easier for you to walk the path. Either way works.

* Regarding God(s): Think about God as a sack of sugar. Now if the sack breaks and the crystals spread all over the room, where is the sugar? Each crystal retains all the properties of the original sugar. Each crystal will be sweet and retain the composition of the source. Now you can call this Atman, Paramatman, the Big Bang theory, the Brahman, multiple Gods and whatever that catches your fancy and delineate and group this differently. The truth that each particle is sugar does not change. Some particles might get littered with dust and lose their luster but that does not change the fact where it came from though you may not recognize it easily.

- Hari Om Tat Sat!!

From: Suresh Natarajan
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 1:20 PM
To: Balaji Hariharan; Navindra Umanee; Radhesh Mohandas; Ajit Krishnan; Srimani Venkataraman;
Subject: RE: Protecting Vedas

This is a great discussion but one small comment - please do not use God in plural while discussing the Vedic theology. This type of mischaracterization is what leads many casual outside observers to think of the Vedic religion as polytheistic which it most definitely is not.

What you mean by invocation of vedic mantras is devas like Agni, Indra etc. which is very distinct from the Supreme Truth personified as Bhagavan (or Brahman in nirguna state) and from whom all devas get their potencies as we humans and other life forms do as well though more limited than devas. Devas can be referred to in English as demigods or in some literature gods (with a small g) though even that can lead to people misinterpreting so demigods is a better term to leave no ambiguity. There are tons of verses in Bhagavad Gita and other shruti/smriti that emphasize this distinction between the Absolute and the relative, with everyone except God (including all devas starting from Brahma) only relative.

So getting back to the discussion below, that's why as you correctly pointed out, chanting the holy names of Bhagavan is superior to even chanting of vedic mantras particularly in this fallen kali yuga since you are going straight to the source as it were.

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From: Balaji Hariharan
Sent: Sun 8/20/2006 11:09 PM
To: Navindra Umanee; Radhesh Mohandas; Ajit Krishnan; Srimani Venkataraman; Satsang
Subject: RE: Protecting Vedas

I little ‘r’ed him. Am elaborating it here…

Intellectual understanding Vs Realization

As you know, the Vedas contains the path to the truth. There are many aspects to it – the “intellectual” understanding (trying to reason out everything) of these and second is the following of what is said in the Vedas (by faith and as per Guru’s order, and not necessarily understanding). The Vedas cannot be understood in the intended manner by even reading a dozen books, but need to be learnt through a Guru only. An entire life needs to be dedicated to just this! But whatever little we can learn, can be learnt by us atleast part time from a good teacher.

Better still is realizing (than just understanding by logic) what is said, for which we need to be prepared mentally. Btw, one cannot say that the faith, mentioned above is lesser in strength than understanding.

Importance of chanting

Apart from these two, many greats who have gone beyond the Vedas (realized the truth), have asked us to chant the Vedas daily. This is not any mechanical ritual, but the Veda mantras themselves are Gods themselves, and chanting these properly (I repeat, properly) invokes the God for which the mantra stands. A proper recitation of these, and Gods bless but anything improper they don’t. Infact they say there could be even bad effects. These are not like bhagavan nama (name of lord) that can be chanted even wrongly, or by anyone, understand any condition or place (without taking bath, or even in bathroom etc.), and even then the Gods always bless.

That’s the reason the chanters of Vedas have a lot of rules and restrictions to follow in life, and in chanting (like pronunciation and intonation should be correct). Hence, they say – the Veda chanters are the gardeners who are watering the tree called Vedas, and every life (any human or even an ant) enjoys its fruits. An englishman rightly compared the Veda chanters with those working in a nuclear power plant (or a place where computer processors are made). Only some are allowed inside the factory that too with strict protective wear, but every one enjoys the fruits (electricity).

And also quoting the Gita, Krishna says – the peace that is gained by listening to a Vedic chant is me! (the lord speaks about effect/importance of chanting)

I am trying to quote what I have heard from greats. If there are any mistakes, I apologize for these.

Thanks

//Balaji Hariharan

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From: Navindra Umanee
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 9:26 AM
To: Balaji Hariharan; Radhesh Mohandas; Ajit Krishnan; Srimani Venkataraman; Satsang
Subject: RE: Protecting Vedas

I think Radhesh’s point is being lost. Radhesh sees the Vedas as a representation of the truth. If we do not have a true fundamental understanding of this, the source of the Vedas, as well as insight into the process and people who created them, the Vedas themselves might as well already be lost.

However, others here seem to be concentrating on the dogmatic and ritualistic aspects as needing to be performed without investing any work in fundamental understanding itself. If this is the path being prescribed, then what’s to stop us from going back to practicing animal sacrifices referred to in the Vedas?

Thanks,

Navin.

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From: Balaji Hariharan
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 3:19 AM
To: Radhesh Mohandas; Ajit Krishnan; Srimani Venkataraman; Satsang
Subject: RE: Protecting Vedas

@Ajit,

Excellent summary of what we should do! Thanks. I am sure this is sufficiently inspiring everyone to be really regular at the nitya anushtanas, and I think I need to read it twice or thrice to internalize the matter.

Radhesh,

I agree that Vedas are always present, but if no one is chanting it, it is lost for mankind! Hence, what if it is just present in ether. Ofcourse, by God’s grace this extreme situation wont happen. But given that we have already lost thousands of shakas in Vedas, IMO, it would be wrong if we don’t protect even what is there in our hand. By protection of Vedas, I meant making sure we live according to Vedas and serving those who are already living that way. Apologize for the confusion.

Thanks

//Balaji Hariharan

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From: Radhesh Mohandas
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 5:39 AM
To: Ajit Krishnan; Balaji Hariharan; Srimani Venkataraman; Satsang
Subject: RE: Protecting Vedas

In the tiny town of Chickamagalur, Karnataka there is this Veda Vigyana Mandira where Brahmashri B.S.Nityanada teaches the vedas to any one who is willing to learn. Try visiting it and you will see a model. Vedas were always present and will be present in the Ether. The ability to grasp them might be lost from time to time but the Truth is imperishable. They do not need our protection - The real question is how do we tap into this reservoir of knowledge.

-Regards,

Radhesh

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From: Ajit Krishnan
Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 6:32 AM
To: Balaji Hariharan; Srimani Venkataraman; Satsang
Subject: RE: Protecting Vedas

Personal

1. Perform Nitya-Karmas: Daily Puja, Japa etc: As it has been said, “The sacred bell must ring in every house”. This is actually simple, and requires but a few minutes. However few of us do it. The importance of fire (homam, aupasana) and water (abhisheka) in daily worship is very much on the decline.

2. Perform Samskaras for one’s own children: The majority of samskaras are actually performed during infant-hood, and only parents have the ability to do this. The children are indeed a product of their time in the womb. Until the 6th month of childhood itself, we have 8 samskaras: garbhadana (prenatal), pumsuvanam (prenatal), simantam (prenatal), jatakarmam (birth), namakaranam (naming), karna-vedhanam (ear piercing), upanishkramanam (first outing), annaprashanam (first feeding). Call the local archaka to perform the minimum samskaras. Instead of asking him to complete them in 20 mins, find out what is involved. Agni (homa) is really a part of almost all samskaras.

3. Learn minimum portions of the vedas / puranas: This is best done in childhood, since it can happen seemingly effortlessly with a qualified teacher.

4. Learn minimum portions of the vedangas: In particular, this involves some knowledge of shiksha (correct pronounciation), vyakarana (sanskrit grammar), and jyotisha (astronomy & astrology). In addition, we should support scholars in chandas (importance of meter), nirukta (etymology of rare vedic words) and kalpa (rituals).

Community

1. Protect the shrouta culture: This culture of soma-yagnas is on the decline. There are probably only a couple of hundred shroutis left in the world today, as one needs to be well qualified (almost a vedic scholar), and needs to have financial resources to be able to perform the minimum daily homas required of them. Shroutis also need to perform bi-monthly rituals where 4 priests are required. It is expensive in amounts of knowledge, time & money. We should support those who are willing and interested in doing this.

2. Support veda-pathashalas financially: Enough said. There are wonderful umbrella organizations such as the Veda Rakshana Samithi that Srimani mentioned.

3. Support in-depth research into vedas & vedangas: Though we can appreciate efforts by so-called-indologists, many of them have ulterior motives, and their own agendas. Research needs to be encouraged by those whose intent is sincere. However, it requires one to have a minimum working knowledge of sanskrit, and one’s own chosen professional field.

4. Collecting and digitizing existing material: Though some work has been done on this, one needs to have some knowledge of the language and subject matter before this can be done effectively. Thus,, due to lack of qualified people, much more effective work is possible.

Action Items: What can we do about it

1. Call the local archakas to perform the minimum samskaras for our children
2. Make use of existing classes

1. Slokas etc: Go with children to Balavihar, Balavikas etc.
2. Sanskrit: Participate in Samskrita-Bharati classes. Bring Sanskrit into everyday life.
3. Music/dance: Carnatic music, bharathanatyam etc. are beautiful aspects of the culture

3. Bring qualified teachers and organize Seattle classes:

1. Puja vidhanam: Teach basic procedure that can be followed daily.
2. Puranas: Discources and teaching of puranas, itihasas (ramayana / mahabharata) etc

4. Support those who protect the culture

1. Support veda-pathashalas financially
2. Support shroutis financially
3. Support vedic research financially

If one is serious about protecting vedas, the first question is “how can I do this”. i.e. as Balaji said, “how can I learn and live the culture”. If there is sufficient interest, we can arrange a meeting to discuss the possibilities in Seattle (maybe next month? this month is jam packed with festivals etc). I suspect the local HSS chapter is already doing quite a bit of work in this area, and all we need to do is get involved. We can also meet with other principals in the local area including: (a) teachers of ongoing Balavihar / Balavikas etc. classes, (b) yoga-bharati, (c) samskrita-bharati, (d) classical indian vocal / dance organizations, (e) temples and temple-priests etc. There is already a lot going on, all we need to do is get involved in whatever aspect interests us. If you are interested in meeting to discuss the possibilities, please little “r” me.

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From: Balaji Hariharan
Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 1:56 AM
To: Srimani Venkataraman; Vedic Culture
Subject: RE: Protecting Vedas

It has been summarized superbly by Srimani on what it is meant to protect the Vedas. A great mahan said it is to dedicate one’s life to learn & live according to Vedic dharma. He elaborated it as to do the daily duties as prescribed for oneself in the Vedas, learn the Vedas (if prescribed to learn), chant it daily, and those who are well-off need to help the needy Veda learning students and teachers. To live a Vedic life is completely in our hands, and so is to help Veda Patashalas.

To cite a typical Veda Patashala: It lives because of charity! It offers free education, food, clothing, stay to all students. Even then, due to extreme economic conditions many students are forced to discontinue their studies. The teachers are paid Rs.4000/- on an average, which is very less by any standard to lead a family, perform rituals etc. This means, we the economically better off need to extend our help (infact grab the opportunity) to serve these Veda patashalas.

I am not speaking keeping any organization in mind, but asking your help in contributing to Veda Patashalas in India. As you know Vedas are the root of our religion, and it is time to water it!

I am not associated with any Veda Patashala or organization, but still I know of some good organizations that are helping 40+ Veda patashalas. Let me know if you are interested in contributing to them.

Thanks

//Balaji Hariharan

PS: I recently visited a Veda Patashala for a Namasankeertanam program in Hyderabad that is teaching about 100+ students. It was an awesome experience to see these young kids (4yrs etc.) with a divine look in their faces and dedicating their life to Vedas. I encourage everyone of you to visit a veda patashala, if you haven’t yet.

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From: Srimani Venkataraman
Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 2:19 AM
Cc: Balaji Hariharan
Subject: Protecting Vedas

Friends,

Yep. That is a really excellent topic. Sri Shankara Bagavathpada says, “Vedo Nithyam Adeeyatham” , means follow & adhere to the Vedas for ever and peform the duties as mentioned in them. Probably some simple steps could be:

1. Performance of the Nithya anustanams
2. Chanting of the Vedas (like Purusha Sooktham, …)
3. Encouraging others to chant the Vedas
4. Probably developing web pages on such matters
5. Back in India, there is a Veda Rakshana Samithi, which could also be contacted for the same.

Thx,

Srimani.